Aficionados of this blog may recall that I did a unit of French Grenadier Garde to start a Crimean War project (...almost 2 years ago now):
https://tasmancave.blogspot.com/2024/01/ahpc-14-french-grenadiers.html
Well its about time to get them somebody (Historical this time) to fight on the tabletop!
Bog standard Russian line infantry - a basic unit to get me started. I was going to get the lovely Great War Miniatures figs but I need to get some figures done and these get me going at a good price. I kinda prefer the forage caps (mutzes) to the helmets but at least they will be distinctive!
Planning this to be a project for AHPC 16. I really missed the challenge last year so hope to participate in a limited way this time around (hard to call it "Winter" in Hawai'i!)
Oh god not the challenge, it’s so boring!
ReplyDeleteOh great - you're back! The only thing that is boring is your negativity. I'm be happy to enlighten you with facts if you want to stop hiding behind Anonymous one liners though. Thanks for dropping by!
DeleteI dislike the painting challenge as well. I basically stop reading blogs for the three plus months it’s on. I do not mind putting my name it’s Simon Jones.
ReplyDeleteHi Simon, thanks for leaving a comment. I'm curious as to why you might dislike the challenge to that extent?
DeleteI can totally see that it might appear repetitive across multiple blogs while it is running. Against that I would say that it as an activity that brings people together (digitally) across the world, and stimulates hobby productivity for projects old and new. If you like the output content, why does it matter when it was painted? I have projects that were stalled and the Challenge got me going again on them. Some of us also get together virtually for 'paint and chats' and subsequently met in person. Sure thats not for everyone, but I'm genuinely curious about why people would actively dislike an activity like that, thanks.
Apologies - follow up question. The post was about starting a new Army and getting interested in a new period that doesnt see a lot of focus in our hobby. If I hadn't associated that I would do that as part of the Painting Challenge, would you have commented at all about that? Again, just trying to understand.
DeleteI think the ‘Challenge’ puts a lot of people’s backs up. It’s all so false with its yearly themes. What is the theme this year then with the little map? The guy that runs it always posts the first figure/s that are so obviously not painted, based, varnished in challenge time. It’s the creeping and grovelling to him and his wife as well. “Oh Snowlord Kurt thou art so wonderful” and the like “Lady Sarah” it’s makes me and others I know want to puke. People that knock themselves out painting for three months do not then seem to have much output for the rest of the year. So what is the point? A steady year round hobby objective is surely the way to go. Some people do finish some lovely figures/ships I have to admit from bits and pieces I have logged into by mistake. Got to say I am reading less and less hobby blogs generally though. Simon (I got 50 banal challenge points for writing this)
ReplyDeleteThank you Simon for your fulsome reply. Everyone has their own of perspectives of course, and thanks for sharing yours. I might offer that a lot of the 'supplication' that upsets you is done very tongue in cheek, but I accept it might come off differently.
DeleteSeparately, I would agree that Blogs are less impactful these days, eclipsed significantly by the rise of other social media (FB, Twitter etc), though this retains a good long format for more pics, battle reports etc.
Anyway, I came to the conclusion that my blog's primary audience is actually me. If others like it, that's great! Otherwise its about recording my games, who I played with (more poignant now a few of them have passed away) and occasionally paint recipes for future reference
I'm curious Simon, to understand your reasoning on a few points...
Delete1. Why does it matter when or how people enjoy their hobby time? Is the fact you prefer to paint on a more sedate schedule more valid than how someone else chooses to paint? And if you believe that, why? Many of us paint together online 2+ times a week all year round because we met through the Challenge so it definitely fosters ongoing productivity that you simply are not aware of.
2. "the guy that runs it" is called Curt. He's contributed massively to the hobby by giving his time, energy, enthusiasm and more over a period of 15+ years. The positive impact to the mental health and wellbeing of a number of the participants alone is laudable. Why should some tongue-in-cheek or even genuine appreciation for that cause you to feel ill? And if it does, why bother to visit and take the time to read the Challenge blog at all?
3. Finally, as you clearly don't know Curt, on what basis can you judge whether he can paint a miniature in 24 hours? If the Challenge has taught me anything it's that many of the participants happily paint for hours at a stretch and can finish stuff in one go. I'm guilty of that myself.
FWIW I'm genuinely interested in your answers to my questions. And for the purpose of full disclosure I'm one of the "minions" who helps Curt out, so I have both a vested interest and a great deal of insider knowledge on how the Challenge runs, what it takes to make it happen and what people get from it.
Millsy
Thinking more about this I have an offer for you Simon... As a minion I have a reserved spot in the Challenge, kind of a "thank you in advance" for helping out and sharing the workload. If you'd like, you can have my spot this year and I will sit it out (but still minion). You don't need to paint a load of stuff, just 20 or 30 minis over a 3 month period plus share your hobby story on the blog. You might actually enjoy it and have a different perspective afterwards. What do you think? Want to see if the grass really is greener?
DeleteThat's a most generous offer Millsy. What a great opportunity to see it from the inside and experience the fun and camaraderie
DeleteHello Millsy, thanks for the kind offer but I really would rather not get involved with the challenge at all. One of my friends said he would rather poke his eyes out with cocktail sticks for example, than take part. He is an excellent painter and modeller by the way. Even as I said looking at participants blogs interests me and my friends not in the least. Obviously I am not the only one who feels like this about the challenge. Curt, Canadian, goatee beard, good painter. I am again not the only one to point out the impossibility of his first entries. At least one other queried this on the challenge blog a couple of years ago. This post was taken down by The Snow Lord for no other reason that I can see other than it dared query/challenge the varsity of his/the first entry. I guess if you are taking part in the challenge there is a personal interest in it. For many of the rest of us it’s downright boring. I did notice last time I looked that many participants get deleted from the challenge for not actually completing anything by a certain time. Many others that used to take part do not take part any more.
DeletePersonally I am more of a collector than a gamer now. I am pretty old school in my outlook. Some of the more modern games, plastics, 3D printing, fad game in a box etc do not interest me in the slightest. Most of the shows I have been to this year in the UK have been dreadful. Many traders here are either retiring or just giving up attending shows. I guess in the end shows here especially the smaller ones will just fade away.
Wargamers are certainly getting greyer and older. Just look at the pictures in the various show reports on blogs. Play spot the youngster in any of the photographs, bet you find that hard. Attendance at most UK shows is dramatically down. It’s not just our hobby, it’s model railway enthusiasts and kit modellers as well. Another thing around the world people’s spare money is being squeezed. Spending on hobbies is the first thing to be cut. The knock on effect to traders and manufacturers is obvious. The hobby now is not what I started enjoying in the late 70’s/early 80’s. I am closer in views to H.G. Wells than anything that’s being released game wise at the moment. This is obviously just my opinion. Best regards Simon
Thanks for the lengthy reply Simon. If you don't want to take part I respect that, but I would ask that you'd refrain from posting negative commentary if that's the case and just leave us to enjoy ourselves in our own way (constructive feedback being something entirely different). There's a number of young painters in the Challenge which is a clear indication it is helping foster the next generation which you rightly point out is lacking in numbers. Anything we can do to promote the various projects and collaborative spaces in the hobby is surely a good thing and working to keeping it alive for future generations.
DeleteI'm pretty old skool myself as my book collection shows, but I appreciate that new hobby tech, evolving rules mechanics, etc. are helping to bring in younger generations who are interested in that side of things. Some of it I've tried and embraced, some I've tried and decided are not for me but I don't discount it just because it's new and I'm not.
To your point about people being removed, that does happen to a very few people most years who don't submit any entries within a reasonable timeframe. The rule is made clear before joining and is done to discourage people from signing up then not contributing and taking a spot from someone else who would contribute. There's no judgement and it's done with the knowledge stuff happens in real life which impacts people and their available hobby time.
Lastly, what would you suggest could be done with the Challenge to make it more interesting to non-participants? We have reinvented various aspects over the years to keep it fresh and it'll never make everyone happy but we do think constantly about what might keep people engaged, be different to previous years, etc.
Thanks Millsy and Simon for the discussion and for sharing your perspectives.
DeleteMillsy's last question I think is the critical one (and one Simon for your like-minded friends that you mentioned): If in your view the Challenge is not broadly well received by those not participating in it, what are your constructive suggestions for helping it to be?
I think you would find Curt to be receptive all feedback- he certainly has been in my experience. In many ways, what started as a project to inspire a few friends to hobby over the harsh Canadian Winter has been "catastrophically successful" and now going into its 16th Season. Over that time, Curt has always shown a willingness to adapt and evolve, subject to capacity. I'm sure he would genuinely welcome input to that end.
Yes I like the Idea of starting a Russian army for the Crimean War. Personally I would have done it in 10mm metal and not in 28mm kit form. Simon Jones
ReplyDeleteThat would have been the smart scale choice for sure! I was after a modelling project as much as a gaming one
DeleteI have thought about Crimea a long time ago when Unlucky General (Greg) got enthusiastic about it. Now with plastics available you can do it more affordably.
ReplyDeleteThis year for the challenge I am planning Bavarians and Baden, plus odds and sods like Judge Dredd.
The bulk Russians you can at least - which is lucky as they are the "Zulus" of the period, and I'll need a few columns of them!
DeleteBavarians are my favourite - keen to what what colour you choose as "Cornflower blue"! And who doesnt love Necro..um, I mean Mega City 1 :-)
PS I really like Unlucky General Greg's take on Caesarian Romans a few years back too!
DeleteHis testudo models were great
I shall look forward to seeing your output OG. As a long term challenge partipant it’s about the friendships made and the mickey taking . If people like the output that’s fine . Personally I don’t bother with the map and themes I just paint what I want to anyway .My hobby , my way My winter plan is written up . I shall see you there
ReplyDeleteGood for you! Simon
DeleteWe are well aligned Dave! I used to like the big bonus rounds in the old format but while some challengers clearly enjoy the new format, I tend to not do much on the map quests myself.
DeleteAs ever the paint and chats are the highlights for me, and getting to meet some of the folks face to face when I travel is fantastic! You are Curt are on my 'hit list' to catch up with when this work caper starts to tail off :-)
Nice set, Paul. I had thought of getting these awhile back, but didn't want to start another period!
ReplyDeleteThanks Dean, good to hear from you! I have hesitated over this period for some time, somewhat put off my its evident lack of popularity (and thus has a lack of opponents, figure ranges etc) But I figure I have opportunity and time to invest and If I'm still looking at it after a few years, then its an itch I just have to scratch!
DeleteLoving your Trojan war stuff BTW!
Ok I will sling in my penny - well few guineas worth!!!!, I didn’t do challenges and ignored them for the first ten years of my online interest, although I was in digital at work I never bothered with social media FB or twitter etc. privately but I did find blogs useful and eventually I wrote my own blog to myself. If others like it fair enough - think - most artists paint for themselves first. It’s a selfish act first. Anyway I eventually succumbed and participated in some challenges - they made me paint quicker which surprised me and in the case of another challenge I got back into scenery making. For me challenges are what you get out of them personally and in my case it was all positive. Again I am quite happy with my selfish acts. You can do the challenge and just ignore the background chitchat. One guy just churned out dozens of units and used a fixed style to describe them despite requests for more detail. No one got upset. I am an old git wargamer but 3d or fantasy or any latest fad is simply progress and back in the seventies us old gits were no doubt young pushy obnoxious objectionable gamers to the proper hobbyists adults of the time. Quite simply change happens and wargaming in all its forms is vibrant as far as I can see with lots of change unlike say stamp collecting….
ReplyDeleteThanks Norber - appreciate you dropping by and sharing your views. I think many of us spending hours alone painting or with friends playing is an investment in personal wellness. Its what we enjoy - I'm sure long distance runner/swimmers feel the same (but I'll never know!). Its about the satisfaction we take from hobbies. That does indeed have an internal aspect, though thats probably different to being selfish? Not sure, I'm on firmer ground talking brush sizes and different hues of blue paints!
DeleteGlad all your experiences were positive - may that long continue :-)
Oh wow - the Crimean War is a period that has tempted me several times, but I have yet to succumb (if only because I succumbed to other notions instead at the same time!). I can't wait to see your output in this year's edition of the Painting Challenge!
ReplyDeleteAnd for those who have a "problem" with the Painting Challenge...well...in the generous spirit of Paul and Millsy, I guess what I would say is "I hope that is the worst thing that happens to you"...
Thanks Greg - Looking forward to it. Planning to group base the Russians so I can put them in a "poorly trained rag-tag" style formations!
DeleteAnd Amen to that!
Looking forward to the Crimean Russians Paul. I’ve been tempted by that period at various times.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who regularly games with Curt I will say that he is a night owl, a perfectionist and a man of his word. His character is very much someone who would start a primed figure at midnight and work into the wee hours until it’s done. I will also point out that the Challenge itself started as a low key thing between a few bloggers as an incentive to get off their duffs and get some figures painted during the long cold winters (or what passes as suc( for Brits). Since then it snowballed into something much bigger, which was not at all what Curt was expecting or looking.
Mostly the Challenge is about fun, friendship, challenging oneself and cheering on other hobbyists. Based on the comments above, it appears that these are foreign concepts to some of us. I can’t say that the Challenge is any worse off for them opting out.
In generally I thoroughly agree with Paul’s comment on other people’s hobbies. However I think that Simon might want to consider a hobby other than bashing other people’s fun. But I guess what ever floats your boat.
Thanks Peter - I hope my efforts will match your expectations! Having done some French previously, I'm going to try and do some of the 'grunt work' with the less glamorous Russian line infantry columns. That way I can earn myself some snazzier to paint troops!
DeleteOne day I hope to get over there and enjoy a game with you at Curt both! :-)
Love to see you here Admiral! If you’re looking for snazzy don’t forget the Turks and Sardinians.
DeleteTurks are definitely on list (I think that only Foundry do them for this period, and they are a little smaller in stature) but adding Sardinians is a great call!
DeleteHave you thought about kitbashing Perry plastics? They make Zouaves!
DeleteOhhh- that's a great suggestion! I didn't know they made ACW Zouaves - right era even. I think they would do nicely without much tinkering. Probably just need to work up a few officers with Fezes. Thanks mate!
DeleteThere are metal Zouave command packs on foot, or you could put fezzes from the Zouave box onto plastic ACW cavalry. I can be pretty good at spending other gamers money, eh?
DeleteNot usually a problem I have myself, but I appreciate the input and ideas Peter! :-)
DeleteI for one very much enjoy the Challenge - it helps motivate and the shared experience can be a lot of fun in what otherwise can be a reclusive hobby. Others’ work and projects are inspiring to me. The occasional online painting session is great for virtually meeting other hobbyists across the world. Curt & his helpers are generous with their time. I don’t like the Challenge - I love it. The Crimean project sounds awesome - good luck! If something isn’t your cup of tea - what on earth are you trying to achieve by knocking it? Mean spiritedness has no place in a hobby we’d like to grow.
ReplyDeleteThanks Pete - I'm certainly feeling very motivated by all things Crimean War at the moment! Now facing that worse possible decision for wargamers: basing methodology!
DeleteI love it the challenge too Pete - I really missed not being a participant last year while moving overseas but I was glad to assist in a modest way with some minioning.
I've taken part in the challenge for the past 4 years and as more of a painter and collector rather than gamer (essentially solo) its been the highlight of my wargaming year. What's really most enjoyable now and the greatest benefit though as a result of my participation is the weekly paint and chat on Tuesday nights with the rest of the down under crew. An added bonus was meeting a few of my fellow participants at Partizan last year including Dave D, Ken R along with Big Lee and Ray. Taking part in the challenge has meant I'm less isolated hobby wise and now have a new group of wargaming mates. I am so looking forward to December 21st again. Best wishes Simon, its been nothing but a shot in the wargaming arm for me and I'm productive all year round
ReplyDeleteThanks Kerry - I agree, our paint and chat sessions over the past two years have been excellent. In fact, I'll see you in one hour for our next one! Keep those brushes sharp my friend :-)
DeletePersonally I dislike the challenge as well. I would rather remain anonymous as the brave Simon seems to be taking a bashing. It’s the stupid yearly theme thing of the challenge that gets me. Plus the scraping and grovelling that seems to go on the the organiser. My regular gaming partner just switches off looking at blogs as well.
ReplyDeleteHello, and thanks (sincerely) for chiming in, Mssr Anonymous No 2!
DeleteActually, I have been watching the comments carefully and it has been a very civil discourse. While people have disagreed with Simon and given their own points of view, there has been no 'bash'. This is deliberate - I genuinely want to understand what is objectionable, and what constructive comments you may have to find it less so. There are other, less savoury places for the other kind of discourse.
Honest question please: During the challenge I (and many others) regularly post our outputs to our own blogs after they are published on the challenge page. If I was to do that without labelling it as a "AHPC Submission" would that genuinely make nit more likely that you would look at it? And if it was so labelled would it be less to you than something I painted identically at a different time of the year?
Again, thanks for contributing to the discussion - everyone's views are welcome
I have to disagree with Anonymous 2 as well. I've very carefully crafted each response to make it clear I'm genuinely interested in why people find it the Challenge objectionable, as well not judge and respect differing ways of going about your hobby. If you won't put your name to your comment in a civil discourse, and have nothing but entirely subjective negative opinions to offer, then you aren't contributing to the discussion and I'd ask you respect the rest of us and steer clear please.
DeleteIs your name also Simon by any chance??? :-P
DeleteHello mate, this will be a great start to the challenge for you. It looks like you and the challenge are getting trolled! As they say, "Any press is good press". I see the Painting Challenge as a very positive thing. I just struggle working to a deadline and I always want to show off my painting first :D
ReplyDeleteHi mate - yes a project focus will indeed be useful! Looking forward to it as always :-)
DeleteI do not like the challenge either. Simon has much the same opinions of the challenge as me. Personally I do not read any blogs of the participants on or just after the competition. For some reason Google will not let me log on properly. Guess everyone has a viewpoint, Sophie
ReplyDeleteHi Sophie, thanks for dropping by. Perhaps you might share some constructive comments for improvement? Nobody seems to able to do that so far
DeleteAnd same question as above to Anonymous 2: If I post something I painted during the challenge without labelling it as a "AHPC Submission" would that make it more likely that you would look at it? How is it better or worse? And if it was so labelled would it be less to you than something I painted identically at a different time of the year?